«The debate about screen use is more complex than "mobile yes" or "mobile no"»

Josep Lluís Matalí: "The debate is necessary, but perhaps the radical polarization of the debate is not so much. We are at a time when it is more difficult to seek consensus than to discuss. The use of technology is such a dynamic reality that we must constantly question and rethink it, because it is changing and we must adapt. But what is important, and with this intention we have written the book Viure entre pantalles , is to put everything on the table and talk about it, something that perhaps we have not done until now. Perhaps we should have dedicated more time and more effort to see what these pros and cons were, the advantages and disadvantages of introducing screens to the population."

Jordi Bernabeu: « When we talk about screens, we are talking about much more than devices, we are talking about diverse uses. Trying to reduce this complexity based on a yes-no or "for" or "against" variable means that we lose many nuances. In any case, we should think about how we work on the impact of digitality on people's lives and how to avoid its problematic uses. Polarizing is a trap that we set for ourselves and that only leads to more polarization. What is needed is to share criteria.»

Jordi Bernabeu: "We have been saying for a long time that we need to regulate, but another thing is whether or not we agree with the analysis of the problem. In other words, what do we want to prevent? Regulating also means putting on the table that we may have to define that there are different uses. An hour of WhatsApp is not the same as an hour of YouTube, if you are watching a documentary; it is not the same to use ChatGPT to commit plagiarism as to help you do a project. That is why we say that the The debate must be broader. How do we regulate the different uses? How do we regulate the instruments? How do we regulate the approaches: when and how do we start to progressively introduce screens? Is the debate the instrument or is the debate digitality?

Josep Lluís Matalí: "Yes, I think we need a much more careful, more scientific and a little calmer debate, that doesn't simplify everything to "mobile yes" or "mobile no". The big challenge, for me, is the digital training and training of the population. The goal is for us to have the capacity for self-regulation. Currently, we don't yet have an answer to the question of whether social networks cause mental disorders. We need more longitudinal studies to say it in a robust way. What is a reality is that screens, in general, are a great mediator between discomfort and problems. For example, studies on loneliness do not observe a direct relationship with the use of screens, but they do find that the use of screens attenuates this feeling. There are also some studies that say that screens can increase the impact of depression in a person who already has the disorder, but, at the same time, they can also be an aid to overcome it. It is in this sense that we think that maximalist approaches are questionable."

Josep Lluís Matalí: "We in no way deny that there are problems associated with the misuse of technology. But what we are advocating is that the analysis should be a little more complex. How can such a complex situation be reduced to a single variable? This single discourse is false. When you say "if we remove the screens, the mental health of young people will improve", this phrase, without taking into account the biological and psychological context or the socioeconomic situation of people, and without this being accompanied by other changes, is not real. We are giving a message to the population that is not true. Sometimes it seems that it is more a social and political debate, than a health one. We are advocating that we need to stop and reflect in depth before making decisions."

Jordi Bernabeu: "It is clear that the use of screens can be problematic. In addition, we must be able to respond to all these concerns. The fact that there are problems in digital environments means that there can be negative effects. We do not deny this. However, problems have different sources of origin. And we often end up confusing concern, problem and symptom. And we may end up pathologizing what worries us and what we see as a problem, without paying attention to other very important variables, which at the same time condition it."

The use of digital environments: concerns and challenges

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Jordi Bernabeu: "I believe that mobile phones cannot roam freely in a high school and that their use must be regulated. But from now on, let's make a one hundred percent demonic reading of it... Another issue is that these types of measures are made from a vision that wants to preserve a very specific adult concern and that somehow also does not take into account the complexity and contradictions that revolve around the adolescent world. Children can decide many things despite being minors, but mobile phones seem to be the only thing they cannot decide. In other words, we ban mobile phones in high schools because they do not meet our adult expectations about our children's academic performance, but, on the other hand, when it comes to knowing where they are and what they do outside of school, then we are interested in them bringing their mobile phones. We are putting on the table a series of contradictions that I dare say we have not yet overcome."

We need a much more careful, more scientific and a little calmer debate, one that doesn't simplify everything to "mobile yes" or "mobile no." The big challenge is the digital training and capacity-building of the population.

Josep Lluís Matalí: "The easy conclusion is to say that children go to school to learn and that's it, and that mobile phones are not necessary. But I think we have to analyse what we want to achieve with this ban. If what we want to achieve is to improve academic performance, that's one thing; if we want children to have a space to enhance their ability to relate in other ways, that's another. To me, the truth is that as a measure it falls short, because I think it has to be associated with a population reading, with a reflection on how we put a little order into everything, with the training of parents and a more progressive introduction of screens. And here I also see a big contradiction, because we tell our children that mobile phones are poison and we are with our mobile phones 24 hours a day and seven days a week. Do we want a change? Well, this change has to happen by reducing our own use of the phone."

Jordi Bernabeu: "In the book we try to give arguments so that everyone can accompany within the framework of their circumstances, their points of view, but with the aim of having a criterion behind it, a meaning. We are committed to personalizing the accompaniments depending on the person, whether or not there is a mental health disorder, and depending on the uses. Of course, regulatory frameworks are needed that must serve everyone, but in this case it is not about establishing general guidelines, but about applying criteria to the reality around you. Accompanying is not about giving your child a hundred euros the first day he goes out partying and saying "you'll be back", but rather, gradually introducing your suffering into his autonomy."

We try to provide arguments so that everyone can support us within the framework of their circumstances, their points of view, but with the aim of having a criterion behind it, a meaning.

Josep Lluís Matalí: "What we want to convey is that the best prescriber is you, if you have training, since there is no one who knows your reality better than you. Since we have an accelerated life, sometimes it is easier for us to be given guidelines, but it will be much more useful for you to set the criteria yourself, adjusted to the reality of your family. Given this, we have found it more interesting not to look for magic recipes, but to look for reflections, so that you can have elements that help you decide what to do with digitality in your home. I will not tell you "from nine o'clock, you take away your child's mobile phone", because there are very different realities, and perhaps that child from nine o'clock can talk to his mother or father, who lives in another house. But I will tell you that exposure to screens alters melatonin secretion and that sleep problems will increase, and that is why the recommendation is that they should not be used an hour before going to bed. To be a good self-prescriber we must have knowledge and a critical sense; be aware, for example, of what infinite scrolling or the personalized algorithm of some social networks means, or that video games are designed to perpetuate behaviors and that there are some properties, such as loot boxes, that with more vulnerable boys and girls can be a trigger for pathological gambling and the risks it entails.

Family, school and community prevention in the use of screens

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Josep Lluís Matalí: "Of course, Accompanying also means not giving in to pressure, setting limits, saying "now yes, now no". When you review the literature, you see that an application like WhatsApp does not have the same impact as Instagram or TikTok, for example. I can say WhatsApp yes to my son, with a supervision agreement, and maybe we will leave social networks for later, when I see him with the capacity to manage them, and then I can gradually introduce them. But I can also say to him: "Listen, I gave you a device and I see that you are not using it well, so maybe I will take it away from you, because if you are not mature enough, I cannot trust you". But here comes another debate, and that is that we have a life that has eaten us up, a very stressed population. In this sense, obviously, we think that parents are not guilty or negligent, but that they need to be provided with tools to help them".

Banning mobile phones in schools is useless if it is not associated with a population reading, a reflection on how we can bring some order to everything, training parents and a progressive introduction of screens.

Jordi Bernabeu: "When we talk about prevention, we talk about boys and girls having organized lives and feeling accompanied, and having people by their side who help them work through emotions, thoughts, with complex stories in the face of complex situations. Not just how you feel, but what you think about it. And also helping them take care of their bodies, beyond sports. Family time together is certainly more valuable than days without screens. If you take your child's cell phone away and leave him in his room playing solitaire, I don't see much point in it, because maybe it's better to give him his cell phone and let him interact with his friends. What makes sense is to recover the essence of communication and intimate connection with others."

Josep Lluís Matalí: "More than a screen problem, we have a relational problem. The best protective factor is the reconnection between us. Therefore, I would prioritize and put the emphasis and effort on this. Sometimes, this means leaving the mobiles on the table, talking and sharing life. The discourse is let's reprioritize and reconnect with ourselves, and everything else will come. I believe that we should talk about life, and this also includes the problems of life, about what we find most difficult. Having complex conversations helps us mature in every way."